The Imposter Syndrome Network Podcast

Rowell Dionicio

May 30, 2023 Chris & Zoë Season 1 Episode 44
Rowell Dionicio
The Imposter Syndrome Network Podcast
More Info
The Imposter Syndrome Network Podcast
Rowell Dionicio
May 30, 2023 Season 1 Episode 44
Chris & Zoë

In this episode, we are joined by Rowell Dionicio, the founder and managing director at Packet6, network engineer at Stanford University, and podcaster of Wi-Fi technologies at Clear to Send.

Rowell shares his journey of starting Packet6 to address Wi-Fi challenges while balancing his career at Stanford, entrepreneurship, and family life.

Discover how Rowell navigates the complexities of being an entrepreneur and network engineer, while also managing his personal and family commitments. He discusses the importance of delegation, setting boundaries, and adapting his mindset to tackle different tasks effectively.

Join us as we delve into Rowell's insights on time management, the importance of saying "no," and embracing a learning mindset. Listen to his stories of overcoming challenges and growing both professionally and personally.

"It's ok to say you don't know, and follow it up with 'but I can find out, figure it out…' Show that you are open to learning and doing things differently."

Rowell's Links:


Thanks for being an imposter - a part of the Imposter Syndrome Network (ISN)!

We'd love it if you connected with us on LinkedIn:

Make it a great day.

Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, we are joined by Rowell Dionicio, the founder and managing director at Packet6, network engineer at Stanford University, and podcaster of Wi-Fi technologies at Clear to Send.

Rowell shares his journey of starting Packet6 to address Wi-Fi challenges while balancing his career at Stanford, entrepreneurship, and family life.

Discover how Rowell navigates the complexities of being an entrepreneur and network engineer, while also managing his personal and family commitments. He discusses the importance of delegation, setting boundaries, and adapting his mindset to tackle different tasks effectively.

Join us as we delve into Rowell's insights on time management, the importance of saying "no," and embracing a learning mindset. Listen to his stories of overcoming challenges and growing both professionally and personally.

"It's ok to say you don't know, and follow it up with 'but I can find out, figure it out…' Show that you are open to learning and doing things differently."

Rowell's Links:


Thanks for being an imposter - a part of the Imposter Syndrome Network (ISN)!

We'd love it if you connected with us on LinkedIn:

Make it a great day.

Machines made this, mistakes and all:

[00:00:00] Chris: Hello and welcome to the Imposter Syndrome Network Podcast where everyone belongs, especially if you think you don't welcome imposters. My name is Chris Grundman and I'm here with my co-host, the Always Informative Zoe Rose. Hey, this is the Rowell Dionicio episode and you're going to love it. Rowell deploys simple, seamless, and secure enterprise networks.

[00:00:31] Chris: He's the founder in managing director at Packet six, a network engineer at Stanford University, NetEng YouTuber, and a podcaster of wifi technologies at Clear to Send. Hey, Rowell, would you like to introduce yourself a bit further to the imposter syndrome network? 

[00:00:48] Rowell: Yeah. Like you said, I kind of do a wide range of things.

[00:00:51] Rowell: I don't, I don't know, I keep myself pretty busy. There's never a dull moment. For me, it's just mainly about learning a lot of technologies, learning about business lately. And then also keeping track of my time. 

[00:01:05] Chris: Yeah, for sure. As the astute listener has now discerned, you do in fact do a lot and almost everything you do professionally anyway, seems like it has something to do with wifi.

[00:01:17] Chris: So that's where I'd like to start. Why wifi? Is that something you intentionally chose to focus your career on, or did it happen by chance or what? Maybe tell us a little bit about how, how wifi became such a big part of, uh, your professional life. 

[00:01:30] Rowell: Yeah, I would say maybe about seven years ago I was at a managed service provider in San Diego, and I got put into an environment that the users relied heavily on wifi, so they had Cisco controllers.

[00:01:45] Rowell: Access points or the old tanks that the metal looking tank access points. And I didn't know anything about wifi then, and what I knew was just what I knew at that time. But because no one else on my team really knew wifi other than signal. Propagated. I decided to just take it upon myself to learn more about wifi and I just kind of got hooked from there.

[00:02:09] Rowell: I, I wanted to learn more. I wanted to do it the right way after I learned that I was doing it the wrong way, so I kinda, this is where I started diving into social media, cuz I learned that there were people on Twitter who were doing wifi and so I started following them. And ended up learning more about, you know, the certification tracks and all the other training that that comes with.

[00:02:32] Rowell: Uh, wifi, 

[00:02:33] Zoe: wifi to me is a tricky one because, I mean, obviously we don't have talk a long, long about it, but, It's, I find when it comes to like building a network, I think, oh, put in more routers, put in more switches. I mean, to a point, but you know, it's not really gonna cause a problem. Whereas wifi, if you put in too many access points, you're actually causing problems.

[00:02:54] Zoe: Yeah. So I find, I dunno, to me, wifi seems really complex and. Does it ever feel like, you know, you're lost at a problem because it is too complex? Or maybe I'm just really rubbish at wifi? I don't know. 

[00:03:10] Rowell: You know, I feel the same way about routing. Routing is not my, uh, forte. I know enough to be dangerous, which is also how people feel about wifi.

[00:03:21] Rowell: They know enough to be dangerous. And, uh, it is true where you can put too many and it becomes more detrimental to your case, right? Where maybe you put too many routers and now you don't even know which path you're taking, which router you're on. Uh, it's very similar, uh, except that with wifi, the only thing you see are the access points.

[00:03:41] Rowell: And generally that's when people start having problems is when they need a troubleshoot, they can't see what's happening. It's either you're connected or you're not. Right? And, and when you start trying to dive into the little details of wifi, knowing what to look for. Becomes like what we focus on as wireless experts is: where should I look first?

[00:04:03] Rowell: I know generally how wifi works. Where does the problem occur? Tho those kinda strategies. So very similar to other networking concepts, but for me, since I focus on wifi, I tend to know where to go. But if you threw me into an environment where, uh, no one knew BGP, and I happened to be the. Closest person who would know what BGP was, I would probably be the same way.

[00:04:27] Rowell: Not knowing how it worked. I, I would need to like pull up some books and, and do some research. 

[00:04:34] Zoe: That's a fair point. Chris mentioned that you were a founder and managing director and we've had a couple entrepreneurs on the podcast. And the point you made is, uh, learning a lot about technologies and learning a lot about businesses.

[00:04:50] Zoe: It's kind of hard point because you're learning about the technology, so you have to become the technical expert. Yeah. But you also have to learn about the business and all of the different granular parts of the business. How do you, how do you go about doing that? 

[00:05:04] Rowell: You make a lot of mistakes and, and then you learn from those mistakes.

[00:05:07] Rowell: Hopefully they don't bankrupt you those types of mistakes. Right. But I always do a lot of research ahead of time. Um, there's a lot of books that I read. One of the hardest topics for me is taxes, living in California. And so trying to understand how taxes work is a whole other ballgame and probably much harder than doing a CCIE.

[00:05:30] Rowell: You need to be a, a true expert at, at taxes, but you learn along the way and then you make corrections along the way and just how it is with technology. You know, the further you progress, the more you look back and go, you know, I did a lot of things wrong and I wish I could go back and correct them. And it's the same way in business where you make certain progressions and then you think back to your first initial projects and you go, okay, I would've done a lot of different things differently here in terms of.

[00:05:59] Rowell: Invoicing in terms of pricing. Maybe I didn't collect tax properly or maybe I collected tax on something that doesn't require collection of tax. Like there's a lot of things going on and for me it requires so much. Mind shift, like I have to change mindsets constantly, right? I could be doing something highly technical one minute, and then in five minutes, I'm now looking at a tax code, figuring out how much tax do I have to give to the government, all right?

[00:06:30] Rowell: And do I give them too much? Do I give them too little? Like it becomes challenging and burnout is a thing for me. So there's times where I burn out and I have to track where I am physically and mentally. And then just kind of adjust there. 

[00:06:46] Chris: Yeah. Being aware of that kind of thing. I mean, I think that helps everybody.

[00:06:49] Chris: Obviously entrepreneurs, as you kind of pointed out, end up having multiple jobs at once, even if it looks like you only have one role. So I think it hits us a little bit harder. But in general, I think that's, that's true of a lot of technically demanding roles where you really do need to have that self-awareness to kind of know how you're feeling and check in with yourself.

[00:07:07] Chris: And, uh, I, I mean, I guess that the, kinda the buzzword is, is mental health, right? And just under, you know, make sure that you're kind of, Still chill moving forward on all the gears and, and it's interesting. So I in that right, I mean, you know, obviously you've been doing this for, for quite a while now, the entrepreneur thing.

[00:07:22] Chris: I mean, but I wonder, you know, Again, kind of same question as about wifi in general, but maybe more specifically. Like, okay, so you know, you had some wifi knowledge, you dug down that rabbit hole, found this whole world, got, got excited about it. I mean, I'm, I'm kind of paraphrasing what I think you said and dove in.

[00:07:39] Chris: Then what about that next leap? Like then why start a business around it, right? Why not just kind of keep doing. You know, the consulting thing or, or working at a big, you know, network where that has a big wifi network or, I mean, there's other ways obviously to explore that technical passion. So why, why build your own business around it?

[00:07:55] Rowell: Yeah, so for me, so I've always been around some sort of entrepreneur journey. I actually used to be a wedding photographer and I owned my own business. I went to weddings, took pictures. Eventually there's, uh, I learned that, okay, maybe I'm not so great at photography, but the business side of things, uh, is what I was really interested in.

[00:08:16] Rowell: And what I found was there was a gap in the industry, at least in my areas, where people knew enough about wifi but didn't really know enough to say, design for a warehouse or migrate from, uh, you know, one system to a different system. And so I try to play those specific areas where I target very specific companies who have very specific problems.

[00:08:43] Rowell: And those are just the types of challenges I like to run into 

[00:08:46] Zoe: from. We're looking at your profile. I mean, you're publishing podcast episodes, you're sharing YouTube, video training videos, you know, you're also a network engineer at Stanford University. So all of that together over time, that's gonna take a lot outta you.

[00:09:03] Zoe: So how do you maintain your motivation there and how do you, how are you able to achieve all of these things? Without becoming overwhelmed. 

[00:09:12] Rowell: Yeah. I'll tell you right now at this recording, I have no motivation to do. I really have no motivation. I'm tired. I currently work remote for Stan. Stanford is my full-time job, so I, I commit most of my time in Stanford, right?

[00:09:27] Rowell: Everything else is circles around that, and so I just have to make sure I'm always on top of my projects. I'm always on top of tickets helping other team members. And when there is extra time, so I do typically work longer days cuz after Stanford then I typically start working with clients. I'll start doing emails.

[00:09:49] Rowell: I start, I do a lot of work after like 5:00 PM and so a lot of my work is remote. It's a lot of wifi designs, configuration. So it does become challenging when I take on too much. Extracurricular stuff. So anything with the business, if I take on too much, I end up putting too much stress on myself and it, it's getting to a point where I can take on more work, but I need to get help for that work.

[00:10:16] Rowell: And so I've been looking at ways to find the right people that can. I can leverage and basically do work for me and now I can just delegate that work and kind of manage the project versus being in the weeds of, of those technical details. Cuz now I just create, for me, it's creating a certain process and routine.

[00:10:40] Rowell: In place so that way I don't always go crazy every single day or every week. I mean it, it's gonna happen where I need to pick up Slack, maybe I don't have someone available to work and I just happen to agree to do the job. But it just depends on timing. Uh, I have a lot of vacation hours, so sometimes I will just take vacation.

[00:11:01] Rowell: And so this is where it gets really tricky because I take vacation from my primary employer to do work for the business. So I just have to be careful I don't run out of vacation hours cuz then I can't actually take a vacation, right? I'm using vacation hours to do work and not doing, you know, taking rest.

[00:11:19] Rowell: And so that's what I gotta be careful with. And then of course I have a family, so I have to be be there for my family. 

[00:11:24] Zoe: Yeah. So you're talking to somebody in Europe who like on, I think last job description that I was looking at, that we were a advertising, it's like 30 days holiday, and so for me it's like, hey, what do you define as holiday?

[00:11:37] Zoe: Like you take two weeks and then you have to set. I don't know, it's strange to me. Holiday is very important, so I I can understand what you mean there. I liked the point you made about essentially knowing how to say no or when to say no. I run into this problem a lot. I don't like to say no. I like to say yes, and I often run into a wall of, oh my goodness, what did I do?

[00:12:04] Zoe: I would love to hear your advice on figuring out how to say no, but also. What do you do if you've realized you should have said no, and actually you didn't? 

[00:12:15] Rowell: Yeah, I saying no is much more powerful. I think saying yes to everything kind of sets yourself up for failure, and for me it's knowing what I can comfortably do and what can I confidently do in a given timeframe that someone has given me.

[00:12:34] Rowell: Right. And what I've learned, uh, I had really great managers at one of my last jobs where they gave us some training from a third party, and we learned how to set certain expectations from people. So if someone were to, let's say I was to take on a project, actually before I even take it on, I will ask a lot of questions, right?

[00:12:57] Rowell: What's your timeframe by, and, and when they say timeframe, usually they'll, they'll a, they'll say, you know, within a few weeks, But to me, my calendar is so booked even down to when my son's got baseball games. When I gotta pick up my kids from school, saying, you know, within a few weeks is not good enough for me.

[00:13:14] Rowell: I have to have a buy when and by when I need to know the day and the time it needs to be completed, the drop dead. Date when the whole world crumbles if it isn't done. And so if someone says, yeah, I need it done in five days, you know, before Friday, then that's typically a no for me. Like I can't do that.

[00:13:31] Rowell: Like I have other commitments. I'm gonna not make it. I need to get sleep. That was the other thing for me too. For a long time I would not get, do any sleep. I would probably get like four or five hours, but now like I'm trying to get between seven and a half and eight hours of sleep because I just can't wake up.

[00:13:49] Rowell: Anymore early. I wake up when my kids wake up, when they gotta get ready for school. Um, and, and I'm not really sleeping in late anymore, so I'm trying to protect that time as well. So for, for me saying no, it means it's trying to protect my time, my family's time, and my wellbeing. Projects with other clients is, is a nice to have.

[00:14:13] Rowell: And what's nice is I have a full-time job so I can say no whenever I want. With the business side of things, I, I can be very selective, which means if it's a very, it is gonna sound bad. But when I say it's a, a simple task or simple job, I typically say no to that. Or if I know that somebody else can do it, maybe I'll take it on as my company and just subcontract it to somebody else and give them an opportunity to, to do the work.

[00:14:42] Rowell: But they get the process that we have under our business. But for me, everything, uh, with the full-time job, I don't typically say no. There's, if I have, if they give me something to do, I gotta do it right. That's what I always have to offer in is. I have projects for my full-time job I can't necessarily say no to, so I just have to allocate that time properly.

[00:15:05] Rowell: So for me, if you looked at my calendar, my calendar is booked to the T. Like everything. Even we have a fam, we share a family calendar between me and my wife and everything is booked there. Like, and my kids have field trips. If my wife is chaperoning, I gotta put it in there because that means I gotta go pick up my son and I can't be.

[00:15:27] Rowell: Having scheduling meetings during that time, so everything is booked to a t that way. No one has this, uh, I I don't wanna make anyone feel bad about not being able to meet some of their, the timelines that I agreed to. 

[00:15:42] Chris: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it, a lot of that resonates with me quite a bit. I mean, all the way from, from Zoe's, you know, challenges with saying no, I share and have always been kind of a people pleaser and also an optimist.

[00:15:54] Chris: And so it's like this combination of wanting to like, you know, make people like me and impress them, combined with the fact that I think I can do stuff that no one can actually do. Allowed me, you know, has, has put me into situations where I said yes to way too much. I think of no as like a superpower now, to be honest, and like, I, I kind of have to look at it that way because of all the things you said, you know, it really is protecting yourself and your family.

[00:16:17] Chris: From this thing you do to support yourself and your family, you know, at the end of the day, I mean, I love a lot of the work I do. 

[00:16:23] Rowell: You don't want it to control you. Yeah. And, and saying no, and for anyone who's listening doesn't mean, no, I don't wanna do it. It could be negotiating like I. If they say, Hey, I want this done by Friday, you could say, uh, you know what?

[00:16:36] Rowell: I can't do it by Friday. Can we do it by this date? Like, sometimes you just gotta negotiate and if there really is something you can't do, then you either saying, you know, that's not something I can do, but I can find a resource for you to do it, or I can refer you to somebody else to do it. Like, It's not a straight up, no coming outta my mouth.

[00:16:57] Rowell: It's a nice way of putting it. Or maybe I do want to do the project, but I just don't, I can't do it now. So maybe they need to wait, uh, until some of those projects clear. Some, some clients are capable of doing that, but if not, then eventually you just either have to let that opportunity just pass by and hope to get the next one.

[00:17:17] Chris: Now in the mix of all this, right? I'm kind of balancing this time between yourself, right? Your sleep, which I also agree is very important and I have found as I get older becomes more and more important. I used to be able to get away with a lot more than I can now, but between, you know, your own sleep, your own personal wellbeing, your family, the things you want to be doing and work, right?

[00:17:36] Chris: You've also got in the mix here, you've got a pretty impressive YouTube channel where you've been putting out. I dunno if you do it every week or not, but, but some great training videos and then, I mean, there's, there's a bunch of 'em up there now. So you've been doing it for quite a while, at the very least, and then also the podcast, right.

[00:17:48] Chris: Which I think is in like, like 300 something episodes now. Yeah. I mean, you're, you're deep into clear to send. So how do those things fit into time management? Are they personally rewarding? Are they ways get business? Like, like why spend time doing that stuff when obviously, you know, You could potentially be overloaded already.

[00:18:05] Rowell: This is where my imposter syndrome comes in, because I don't feel like I'm doing a good job on the YouTube channel. For one, I'm not consistent. I'd love to be consistent, but you know, I'm just not consistent with the YouTube channel. Uh, there was, I think last year I posted something in January and I didn't post anything until December.

[00:18:24] Rowell: But for me, it's more about educating others. It's not, it hasn't necessarily been in the forefront as part of. My business plan, I put it in there when I do a lot of planning for, for the year and, and every quarter I make goals. But you know, a lot of times the like, YouTube and podcasts tend to be near the bottom of the priority list just because of things like time and other commitments for the podcast.

[00:18:51] Rowell: We have a little bit more of a structure there lately. Me and my co-host Franco all have been so busy that it's been difficult for us to just get together and record something. But on the podcast, we do have someone who helps produce the, uh, episodes for us. So that's something that we don't do anymore because, uh, of time and, and it's not our expertise, right?

[00:19:15] Rowell: So we, we've made enough sponsorship money there to help pay for someone to do those. And it does lead to business a lot of times. There's some referrals that come through the podcast have been pretty good. And then even on for my personal YouTube channel, I don't think I have one business opportunity that's gonna go through, but I haven't been focusing a lot on that because I'm, I'm still trying to find my stride there and how I want to create a routine around it cuz I have these ideas to create videos.

[00:19:48] Rowell: Uh, it's just the past few weeks I've been. Demotivated to do any of it. So this is really the first, any kind of podcast or video I've done in about two, three weeks. And I have equipment that's sitting here that I'm supposed to make a video on, and I have a lot of it planned out. It's just me trying to get in the right mindset to sit there, do the recording, because I don't also wanna do a recording for the sake of doing one.

[00:20:16] Rowell: I wanna commit to it and actually make it valuable for people. Cuz that's the whole point in the things that we do, right? Is, uh, you're doing this podcast to help other people, but you're, you're not doing it just to do it. There's always a purpose to it. And, and I do put in my calendar to like, Hey, this is, I block.

[00:20:35] Rowell: So I do a lot of block scheduling and, and I, I have these, uh, I haven't been following two blocks, two blocks. I have set up between five and 7:00 AM. One is to write and then the second one is to do a video. But I haven't been following those for about four weeks. It's still there because I'm gonna come back to it.

[00:20:56] Rowell: But there's other things that I've put more commitment to, cuz one of those that I need to commit more time to is actually my health because I do a lot of daily tracking and I've noticed that my weight has been slowly increasing over time. And so now I need to get back into a rhythm of exercising first and then.

[00:21:17] Rowell: Doing the rest of the stuff I have for the day, but then that means I need to wake up early and I've been waking up at seven, so I gotta get my kids ready. And then by that time, you know, work starts 

[00:21:28] Zoe: not fair. That's something I've only recently started doing is the calendar blocking. And the one thing that I've noticed is it helped me deal with that weirdly guilt.

[00:21:40] Zoe: For some reason, I feel guilty if I focus on one thing. I know that doesn't make any sense cuz it's actually work related stuff. What I've noticed that what you just said is the calendar blocking has helped me kind of be like, no, no, no. I'm gonna focus on this at this time so I can do this thing now. You know?

[00:21:57] Zoe: Or when I'm doing that thing, I'm not answering my emails, but it's okay because, you know, I scheduled that weird, it's a weird thing, but I've only recently discovered it. So hopefully, hopefully I become more effective. 

[00:22:09] Rowell: As long as you. Keep being persistent about that and it will help because now you're more efficient with your time and you're not gonna have this mental exhaustion from going from one thing to the other to the next.

[00:22:23] Rowell: If I was doing my email as we were recording this, I, for one, my attention span wouldn't be kept on you for the whole time. Then I have a partial attention span to email and I'm going back and forth. I wanna try to stop that. And also, uh, I've set up blocks of time during my lunch period because I don't know why everyone loves to schedule meetings around lunch from 12, either from 11 to 12 or 12 to one.

[00:22:46] Rowell: I, I, I mean, I, I made an exception for you guys. I schedule that on my own, but at work, people love lunch meetings and I hate it because I'm like, well, I have meetings throughout the rest of the day, it needs to be scheduled at that time, not during a time where I can take a break. And so, uh, there are times where it's like back to back to back meetings and blocking off your schedule.

[00:23:07] Rowell: At least, maybe it doesn't have to be every day. It could be, you know, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or times where you can just focus on actual work, deep work. 

[00:23:19] Zoe: No, that's a really good point. I think the point you make about focus on actual work. It's something that I didn't have starting my career because I, you know, I had managers, but they did the thing that we do and they're overscheduled or I had managers that would wait until last minute to do it.

[00:23:38] Zoe: And I'm not complaining. I had really good managers as well, to be fair, mixed in there. But what it ended up being is I, I didn't really necessarily learn how to be a business person pro, like effectively I feel like, um, and. Yeah, it's, it's almost like after a decade plus of career, I now have to go back to learn how to be a professional.

[00:24:02] Zoe: You know, I've got the technical background, now I have to learn the professional background, how to actually focus that work. 

[00:24:08] Rowell: Yeah, I mean, I, you hit all those points. It's relearning things, right? We kinda gravitate away from what our beliefs are, and we get into the busy work. And then you start getting stressed, and then you gotta actually sit there and think like, how did I get to this position where I am now?

[00:24:28] Rowell: And then you think back and adjust things like, okay, maybe these meetings, these two hour meetings are not good. Or even saying no, right? Usually when somebody sends me a meeting invite, so hopefully my coworkers aren't listening. Usually when people send me a meeting invite, if there's no agenda, I typically decline it.

[00:24:47] Rowell: Because to me, when there's no agenda, that means it's gonna be a crazy meeting. There's no structure around it. There's no purpose. Don't know what anybody wants out of this meeting. So I'll, a lot of times, depending on who it is, I'll just decline it. But if it's, you know, someone I respect, I'll reply back and say, Hey, is there an agenda to this meeting?

[00:25:04] Rowell: And if there is, can I just be at the front? That way I can just cut out when I'm no longer needed. And a lot of times people will just say, yeah, sure. 

[00:25:13] Chris: It's amazing what you can get if you just ask for it. I've found anyway, more and more and more the older I get, the deeper into my career I get, I realize, oh, I should have just been asking for these things all along.

[00:25:22] Chris: Like, why was I putting up with all this stuff and, and then making other people put up with stuff by not like, you know, thinking it through that way too. Speaking of meeting hygiene and all that stuff, maybe not. We're all outta time, that was a terrible segue, but this meeting's almost over. We're gonna have to wrap it up about there.

[00:25:39] Chris: Rowell, thank you so much for sharing your story with the Imposter Syndrome Network, and thank you to all of our listeners for your time and attention. This is the bit where I ask you to pay it forward by sharing this episode or this podcast with folks in your professional or personal life who might benefit from hearing it.

[00:25:57] Chris: As you may have guessed though, I do have one more question for you. Rowell. You know, we've talked a lot about a lot of things you've kind of learned over the years, both about business and technology, and in particularly about kind of taking care of yourself in your career. I wonder, what do you think is the most valuable lesson you've learned in your career so far?

[00:26:14] Rowell: Yeah. The most valuable thing is if you don't know the answer or you don't know. You know, if somebody asks you something to do something and you don't know, it's okay to say you don't know, and you could follow that up with, but I can find out. So there are a lot of people that I run into where they just say, nah, I don't, I don't know how to do that.

[00:26:34] Rowell: And I'm like, okay, so who's gonna do it if you don't know how to do it and it's your job? I appreciate more, uh, for people to say, I don't know, but I'm, I'm willing to figure out how to do it, because then that tells me that you're open to learning and you're not just gonna shut things out and only do things your way.

[00:26:52] Rowell: You're open to doing things differently. And for me, um, that also sets certain expectations for people, right? If you don't know and you ask the question, there could be somebody else in the room that also doesn't know, and you're doing other people a favor by having someone further explain or provide a response that is beneficial for our whole team.

[00:27:13] Chris: I love that advice a lot. Definitely, I, I, you know, the, the one thing, just being okay with saying no, I think that's something that, especially in, in technical fields and digital infrastructure and it. It's scary, uh, the first few times you do it, um, to the point where, you know, I think probably myself included, I can't remember a specific time, but a lot of us end up like lying a little bit, right?

[00:27:33] Chris: Like early in your career somebody asks you something, you're like, ah, 45. Yeah. 

[00:27:37] Rowell: Fake, you know, fake, fake it until you make it. 

[00:27:38] Chris: Uh, right, right. Because I think there's a way to fake it without lying, but, but that's another conversation I guess

[00:27:45] Rowell: there is. Yeah. No, I love that. And I'll give you, uh, one short story.

[00:27:48] Rowell: So. I had one client who wanted to do SD wan, right? They went to me asking to deploy SD wan. I didn't know anything about SD wan, so I, I'm a partner to a vendor that provides it and I'm like, I could figure it out. And so I went ahead and said, yeah, I can do it. And then, you know, I was scared the whole time cause I'm like, I don't even know how to make this work.

[00:28:10] Rowell: I don't even have the funds to get a lab equipment and test it out myself. And I don't know, I only have one ISP at home. How am I gonna do, you know, multiple ISPs and, uh, I dunno. I somehow made it work and I think I read the admin guides, you know, front to back. I was able to stage it up separately in their environment.

[00:28:30] Rowell: So I did it all in their environment, you know, talk about doing things live. Luckily I didn't break anything and, and I ended up knowing more than some of the actual support people. Like I made sure they had a support plan. And, uh, I would just call 'em all the time support, put in multiple tickets. Ended up learning it very well.

[00:28:50] Rowell: Just that one product though. So don't hit me up on doing SD WAN for like multiple things 

[00:28:55] Chris: done. We gotta cover. 

[00:28:56] Rowell: That's all. Be confident. Like if you're gonna say yes, be confident that you can actually do it, and then deliver it and then own up to a mistake when you make the mistake. 

[00:29:07] Chris: Yeah. Went to your point, right?

[00:29:08] Chris: Like if somebody asks you, when you say, I don't know, that follow up is just as important, which is I can figure it out and And that's what you did right? In that case. And that's a big part of like what our careers are in it is just figuring it out. So awesome. Well, we'll have links to your YouTube channel, your podcast in the show notes.

[00:29:26] Chris: Are there any other projects that the Imposter Syndrome Network should know about? 

[00:29:30] Rowell: I'll give you one big issue I created back in my sysadmin days, because I thought I knew Windows, right? So my systems administration was with Windows server. I think this was back in Windows server 2008. And we were using DFS or so, not to confuse the wifi people, not wifi dfs, but something, file share or whatever.

[00:29:55] Rowell: And uh, a dfs Yeah, it's like, this was like file shares for different, different departments and one department needed to, or no, we were removing a replicated site. And I'm like, yeah, just delete it. Right? Delete the replication. And, uh, when I deleted it, it actually deleted everything in that folder. Like everything for one specific.

[00:30:18] Rowell: Site. Ouch. And, and this is when we knew backups didn't work. Cuz when you try to restore, it wasn't there on the backups either. And so that always test your backups. 

[00:30:26] Zoe: It was a disaster recovery test. 

[00:30:28] Rowell: Yes. Okay. And so, uh, that, that was like a big learning moment for me. Like, I thought I knew it, but maybe I should have brushed up rather than, you know, do a plan.

[00:30:38] Rowell: Like, here's what I'm gonna do to remove this properly and make sure I don't lose any data. And then, oh, we should check our backups. Um, make sure that I can restore them just in case. So that was like probably my biggest it mistake that I've made. And I don't tell people that often, that story cuz I don't want that company coming back to me.

[00:30:59] Chris: That's a fun one. Awesome. Well, thanks again, Rowell. This has been fantastic, and uh, we have used up all our time for real now. So we will be back next week.