The following transcript is machine generated and may contain errors.

[00:00:00] Chris: Hello and welcome to the Imposter Syndrome Network Podcast. Where everyone belongs, especially if you think you don't. My name is Chris Grundemann, and as always, I'm joined by my absolutely wonderful co-host, Zoe Rose. 

[00:00:22] Zoe: Hey! 

[00:00:23] Chris: This is the Marina Ferreira episode, and I have a good feeling about this one. Marina is a data center and cloud technical solution architect a three times CCIE, and I'm lucky to say a friend of mine and a wonderful human being.

[00:00:39] Chris: Hey Marina, would you like to introduce yourself to the imposter syndrome network? 

[00:00:44] Marina: Oh, absolutely. Well, after that, I don't think I need to introduce myself. That was amazing. Thank you , and thank you guys for having me. 

[00:00:51] Chris: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:00:52] Marina: I haven't done one of this for quite some time, so I was a little bit nervous, but I'm actually, you know, getting my act together.

[00:00:58] Marina: So thank you for, for having me guys. 

[00:01:01] Chris: Well, thanks for joining us. I think it's gonna be a treat for the network and I'm glad you're feeling comfortable here. I do wanna start kind of right at the, I guess the current moment, As I said, you work at Cisco as a technical solutions architect covering data center and cloud.

[00:01:16] Marina: Mm-hmm. 

[00:01:16] Chris: What does that mean? 

[00:01:17] Marina: So that's interesting. So I blessed, well I've been here for three years now, Right. Uh, and I have gone through different technologies. Right? Right now, at the moment, I'm on this specialized role where yes, I cover data center and cloud network working solutions. It's because it's a like overlay position.

[00:01:34] Marina: So I have specific products that I'm responsible for and that again, falls into the data center and cloud networking category at the moment. There's other stuff within the data center as well, but that's a different team, like comput, storage that goes to a another team. But networking specifically, that falls under, under me for the area that I support.

[00:01:53] Chris: Okay. So it's networking inside of data center and cloud. 

[00:01:57] Marina: Yep. There you go. Absolutely. Yeah, and that's where I have spending most of my, my time lately, in the last few years as well. 

[00:02:05] Chris: Cool. So I think, you know, a, a lot of us have worked with a solutions engineer on, on one side of the table or the other. You know, a lot of people who are in enterprise tech or even service provider tech have worked with vendor folks and a lot of times that's for the solution architect or solution engineer.

[00:02:18] Chris: But not everyone has worked on, on that side, on your side, kind of on the vendor side, actually being, uh, a solution architect or solution engineer, can you dig a little deeper for us and tell me maybe what is a day in the life of your work today look like? 

[00:02:31] Marina: Sure. So the one thing I wanted to clarify that too is that, so right now where I am, I am a pre- sales capacity, meaning I work with account teams, right?

[00:02:39] Marina: That's still, you know, the, again, the pre the pre-sales capacity where we are just, you know, going to customer, presenting the solutions based on their requirements, right? I don't actually work a lot. For example, I don't interact a lot with the engineering team building the product, right? If I don't have to. It's mainly with the product managers.

[00:02:57] Marina: Sometimes we have what we call TMEs as well, when I need to know certain, very specific or more about the product that I don't know as I have to go there. But I don't interact a lot again with the actual people developing new product. But the good thing about working for a vendor, which was something that I always wanted to do, is the fact that I have access to a lot of information that I didn't have before.

[00:03:17] Marina: I don't get to see how things are built, but I do have access to how it was built, right? All of documentation, all of the, you know, collateral that it comes with that. So that's pretty cool. That's pretty neat that sometimes that's not available publicly, right? So that's pretty good. Now to answer your question around how is my day so.

[00:03:35] Marina: Every day is different. It's internal meetings with customer meetings. Uh, this year in particular, I haven't done a lot of customer meetings in person. Most of my customer meetings still have been virtual, and I guess it's pretty much for everyone, right? But on a day, what is very common, that's where I go have customer meeting.

[00:03:54] Marina: I do demos all the time. I do presentations around product updates, roadmap, or explain to a customer how things work. I have to develop little materials depending on what stage, uh, I am with that particular customer. I have existing customer, I have new customers. So it all depends. Every day is a little, a little bit of everything in here.

[00:04:14] Marina: So, and I really like, enjoy the fact that now I have access to more information that I didn't have before. So in being in this position pre-sales capacity, like I said, 

[00:04:23] Zoe: That sounds really interesting. It sounds really challenging, uh, but it sounds really interesting. I was curious on, with that variety of the work that you do and the different types of situations you find yourself in, in a day, what do you think is the most valuable skill that you've developed for that role?

[00:04:42] Marina: I think it's, uh, is the ability to navigate is that, to navigate across different solutions because within, I mean, it sounds single. Like, okay, just datacenter networking. What is it? Just switching? You know? It's not only that, it's also the softer, because it might be a controller based type of solution in there.

[00:04:57] Marina: There's a data operations tool that comes on top of that as well. And sometimes there's integration of other technologies from other, uh, you know, from other business units. So you have to navigate those very well, Right. Really understand the product that you are positioning. And again, based on customer requirements, of course it's having that, you know, sometimes I feel like, uh, like an orchestrator sometimes as well, because being a specialized role, you have to know your products, your stuff you do, but a little bit of how things integrate other stuff as well, because Cisco has so many other products, so many other solutions for different, like security collaboration, right. It's not only, it's not only the datacenter. So, so having that ability to navigate across, that's that, that helps a lot. 

[00:05:37] Chris: That makes a ton sense. And it, it sounds like that's something you kind of enjoy, right?

[00:05:40] Chris: I've heard that this access to, you know, new information or information that not everyone has access to, and then being able to navigate across those sort of information that feels like something that's important to you or interesting to you. And I know from your history that you've been a solution architect for quite a while now.

[00:05:56] Chris: Is that what you love about being a solution architect or is there something else? I mean, what, what, what is it that keeps you in that role versus, you know, venturing around to some other kind of technical position? 

[00:06:05] Marina: So before I, I joined pre-sales right before I became a solutions architect. Overall, I was working for this company.

[00:06:12] Marina: It was my first real job, right? That was operations, right? That was after the fact things already implemented. So we just have to operate an environment, so then you have to do troubleshooting and do things like that. I did that for some time and then when I, when I joined other technology partner. The first year I was on a post-sale side as well.

[00:06:29] Marina: I was helping providing some consulting services for the organization, but I was getting a lot of things coming from presales like, But this is missing or that this is not gonna work. I was like, You know what? Maybe I should just switch . Maybe I should switch my position, let me work on a presale side. Right? So I was there for one year only.

[00:06:45] Marina: In that capacity and then I moved to pre-sales,, which now has been almost, I know, been doing this for almost over 10 years, right. Uh, in this, because Chris, when you work in pre-sales, you are the one building the architecture. You are the one putting things together and you are the owner, right? So, you know that, I mean, there's someone else gonna implement it, but.

[00:07:03] Marina: You are the one and I gonna make sure that, well, whatever it is I'm selling you, whatever it is, I'm working here, it's gonna go the way it's supposed to go to my post-sales team. So yeah, so that's what happened. That was my driver to move from post-sales to to pre-sales. And that's where I have been and that's where I enjoy the most.

[00:07:19] Marina: Cause I do like the architecture. Role, Right, that I have right now. 

[00:07:23] Zoe: So that's a lot of responsibility though. I agree with you and I, I like that because I've been in situations that you've mentioned where it's already been sold and then I have to implement it and it's not necessarily the right solution.

[00:07:37] Zoe: Even the best solutions might not be the right one for some people or some situations. So I like what you kind of explained there is that responsibility of getting it right from the start. From a security perspective, it's getting the security embedded from the start, getting it right, the right type of solutions in place.

[00:07:55] Zoe: Within Chris's intro of you, um, which was very lovely, he did mention that you have three CCIEs. That is bloody impressive. Why? But also how. How did you go about getting those?

[00:08:07] Marina: It's crazy. Right? So the first one was, uh, that was like many years now. I think it was over 10 years or 12. Okay. I, I lost count. But, uh, I think back in 2008, right?

[00:08:17] Marina: That was the first one, routing & switching. And I did it because I was like, you know what? Cuz I, I use certification as a, as a learning tool for me. That's how I, how I learn things sometimes and I'd like to have some bit of hands on. So I did that one and I remember I told myself, I'm never gonna do this again.

[00:08:33] Marina: Because you have no idea. I mean, people listen to this, they would know, right? It takes a lot from you. It's a lot of time that you put in. There's a lot commitment. And I remember saying, This is it. I did it. I got it. That's it, I'm gonna move on. And then in 2014, I, I moved to US, right? I wanted, after moved to us, I was on this service provider team.

[00:08:52] Marina: I was like, You know what, maybe I should go back and look into this, because I wanna make sure that when I talk to my customers, I, I know what they're talking about. I, I, the same language. I decided to pursue service provider and I did it again. I was like, come on. But, but it took some time. There was like a , a time that I needed like, like six year, five years.

[00:09:09] Marina: Right. And then it did it as well. That was, that was good. And then that, that's it. I'm done, I'm done. Again, I was like, I'm not looking at this anymore because a lot of time, a lot of commitment, but then I start switching more from service provider to, to data center as well. That was when I start my, my whole thing, even before, before Cisco.

[00:09:28] Marina: And I was like, I guess I need to do this again . And then I did it. And so far I have no plans to to go after another CCIE. If I ever do again, if that comes up again, probably I would go to security cuz I have a thing for security. But right now, at the moment, I'm not thinking about any other CCIEs because it's a lot of investment.

[00:09:47] Marina: It's a lot of time that you put in and I don't regret a thing, but it takes a lot of it. 

[00:09:53] Chris: So much. Yeah. So I, I've never gone down anywhere near that far on the Cisco track, but I'm also a network engineer and so I've gone through the process for a JNCIE, right, the, the Juniper, uh, expert level cert.

[00:10:05] Chris: And I did do mine when the professional cert from Juniper was also a practical exam. So I took two practical exams to get my JNCIE, and now I'm not gonna put that on, on par with, with the two full CCIEs or now the third full CCIE that you've done. But I can, you know, empathize with the amount of work involved.

[00:10:23] Chris: You know, I guess my question is, was it worth it? 

[00:10:26] Marina: It was. Financially speaking, that was one of the motivation also at the beginning, right after the second it doesn't, doesn't make a lot of difference. I mean, not in my case, but, but yes, it was, it was worth it. I would, but like I said, I'm not planning any other in near future, uh, for now.

[00:10:42] Marina: And I'm always amazed with people that can do that because it's, it's a technical thing that you do, but it's also, you learn so much about yourself because you go through emotions. You know, it's a, some people say the psychological type of certification because it, it involves a lot, uh, also, so. 

[00:10:58] Zoe: Yeah, for sure.

[00:10:59] Zoe: I, I know, I know some of my friends that, Not as many as you. Uh, but they got their CCIEs and they, um, they didn't pass on the first try, but they kept going and they eventually got it. And I think that being able to go for your CCIE even just go for it to me is massively impressive. Never mind achieving it.

[00:11:18] Zoe: And also even situations where people have failed and then achieved it after like five or six tries in some situations. Like that to me, is well impressive. I, I don't think I'm that dedicated or motivated . I would love to, but the motivation and the skills required for going that far to me is just brilliant.

[00:11:39] Zoe: Would you say that you would recommend taking that approach for other people looking to go to a similar career path as you, Or is that something that you think is kind of dependent? 

[00:11:49] Marina: I think it depends on the, On the person. Right? Because maybe what work for me, you're not gonna work for other people.

[00:11:54] Marina: Right? Because it things change as well. Right? For example, right now, what is popular, right? Cloud certifications, right? Not so much. I mean, not to say the CCIE is not, It depends, right? Depend on the person, what they're looking for. So it's, It's hard. It's hard to say, You know what is... Back in the days. I mean, my first CCIE was 2008

[00:12:12] Marina: at the time, there was no cloud certifications at all. So that that was it. Right now there's more competition. There's others out there. So it depends on what you're doing, what you're looking for, you know. Then of course, absolutely. If anyone comes to me, ask me my advice on that. If they wanna pursue like a CCIE track, absolutely.

[00:12:28] Marina: But I'm pretty sure there's other things as well that you would probably get it sooner, , uh, and might be as important as well. So depending on. 

[00:12:37] Zoe: But then you can't go to the CCA parities at Cisco Live. So, I don't know, . Um, no, that's a really good point. So the, the other thing I was going to say is, um, I like the part you said is that it depends, is that is the most consulting answer ever.

[00:12:53] Zoe: That's the answer I have for everything. Whenever it's, Well, it depends. . So that just made me laugh a little bit, but, um, going back to another point that I think, Chris, you already mentioned this. Was that an award you recently won a distinguished speaker award. How is that, and maybe tell us a bit about how you achieved that.

[00:13:14] Marina: Oh, Sure. Absolutely. Because I was so surprised by that too. So here's the thing, I haven't spoken about that much. I mean, I posted it on LinkedIn a few days ago, of course, but I was like, I was kind of shocked because I was so nervous. And to be very honest, at that time, I was going through some personal issues.

[00:13:32] Marina: Like I was, I was not in my best day and I was like, it got a point, I was like, you know, I need to concentrate for this. I need to focus on this because this, right now, this is the most important thing that I have to do. And I did. But my mental state wasn't that great and I did it, That's why I think I was so shocked because I was like, cuz I fought the first five minutes that I did it, it was the first time I was presenting as a Cisco employee.

[00:13:51] Marina: You know, first time in that in Cisco, oh my God. It was like, I don't even know how to say that. It wasn't describable like I said on my post as well. And you, you walk around and you see all the other speakers that are very known speakers, right? They have just got Distinguish awards like forever. I wasn't expecting.

[00:14:09] Marina: I was really not expecting, but uh, but I got it. I got, there was great customers coming in. There's partners, there's people that I work with in the past coming in as well. It was a huge experience and one thing I can tell it was because it was my first time. It was on a Wednesday. Right, and typically if it is on Monday, maybe I would just get this done and then I would be okay for the rest of the week.

[00:14:29] Marina: But it was on a Wednesday, so I spent the whole event just waiting for that moment. It was killing me, but I would do that over again because it was a great experience. I mean, this year has been my highlight. So I love it. And I, I even said that it wasn't my best day personally speaking because there are so many things happening in my life, but I, I got it and I'm happy about it, and I, you know, but I, I must say this is imposter natural grade, I must say that I.

[00:14:56] Marina: It wasn't like a huge breakout session, right? Like as the, like a two hour session, something like that. It was in a DevNet session. Not, not to say that it was not important, but you know, it was just amazing experience and I was like, I'm still a little bit, you know, overwhelmed by that. I don't know what to say anymore about that, but it was a huge, huge, huge thing for me.

[00:15:12] Marina: So...

[00:15:13] Chris: it is, it is super awesome. Uh, congratulations. That's fantastic. And actually, on that point you were making about, you know, maybe this wasn't the keynote at the big hall, but you know, it was a DevNet session. I think a lot of folks who are trying to build their careers look at public speaking as, as a potential avenue for growth.

[00:15:30] Chris: Right. And so I wonder, coming from your background again, you know, being on the presale side, you're probably doing presentations on technical topics, all the time. So I wonder if there's a translation between a customer call that's over Zoom or even in person versus, you know, getting that up on stage and actually doing this DevNet presentation that ultimately wins you this, you know, distinguished speaker award.

[00:15:51] Chris: Are they totally different things? Are they the same? Is there carryover?

[00:15:54] Marina: It's, it's different. It gives you some baggage, of course. Right. But public speaking, With people that, you know, never seen before. Makes it completely different, uh, the energy and also the fact that remember, we are all locked, Right? , I haven't done any public speaking for three years, right?

[00:16:11] Marina: Almost three years. So it was like, it's a learning thing again. So I'm not gonna say I'm, I'm an expert at this because I'm not. I need to. I need to get better at this, but, uh, but definitely that's, that's how you get more exposure and more experience as well, right? But just doing the customer presentations, virtual in person helps.

[00:16:29] Marina: Again, it gives you some baggage, but being on a stage like that, that's something else. That's really something else. So...

[00:16:37] Zoe: I think the best advice I got was from a lady when I was speaking in Australia and I was super, super nervous and she's. You don't have to be the best, just be one better than the worst and you're good.

[00:16:49] Zoe: And that, honestly, as weird as that advice. It was the best advice I've ever received. I never aimed to be the best. I just wanna be slightly better than the worst, and it helps me relax a little bit. It's a bit weird, isn't it? But uh, but yeah, I mean, you have a distinguished speaker award, so you were clearly excellent.

[00:17:08] Zoe: So I will say I'm probably not aiming to be as great as you, but, uh, as long as I'm not the worst , 

[00:17:15] Marina: no. But thank you. Thank you, . It's great motivation for the next, So, well, let's see. Let's see how things works out from here. 

[00:17:23] Chris: So I actually do wanna change the subject a bit. Marina, I'd like to talk to you about the experience of, I believe you started your career in Brazil and, and now you live in New York City.

[00:17:34] Chris: So you've gone from kind of, you know, the global south and Latin America into the United States and into New York City. Some would say the capital of the world. You know, maybe you can talk a little bit about that transition. I mean, is this something that, you know, you were driven to do, or did it just happen?

[00:17:49] Chris: Right. I mean, why come to the US? Was that intentional or did that just kind of unfold throughout your career? 

[00:17:54] Marina: Yeah. You know, what happened was that I was, I used to come here for vacations, uh, like pto and I was, I, I always wanted to live in New York City. That was, uh, one of my, you know, dreams, right? I was like, one day I would come here, I would live here, but that, I mean, I thought that was something like very far away.

[00:18:12] Marina: But what happened that I was working for this technology partner was my second IT job that I had. And I was like, there, there's this, this team that was looking for someone to work for, there's like a service provided team that they were building. It was a new team and they needed someone to help with that, right?

[00:18:26] Marina: So they're looking for solutions architect at the time. And when you know some people that know you well, thinks that you can do a good job. So I had this person that he was the sponsor for me at the time, and he said, Do you wanna take a look at this? You know, maybe you can go and, and, and help with this new team.

[00:18:42] Marina: And he said, And I said, Yeah, absolutely. And these was supposed to be one year. And it became now what, nine years? Yeah, nine years. Pretty much. Right. But it wasn't, it wasn't something I wanted to do. Right. To answer your question, but I never thought it would really happen, you know, until one day it came through.

[00:18:57] Marina: Right. So I moved to US in 2013, so I've been here for, for nine years now. So it's, And it's very difficult, by the way, right when you. For you to have a sponsor to come here. In my case, the company that I was working for did what we call, uh, intra-company transfer. That helped me get to the classes, right?

[00:19:15] Marina: Because otherwise it's very difficult to work here without having that type of sponsorship, right? So that, that happened for me. I think I was lucky to have that ability and when I was one year I was like, you know what? I think I would continue to work here. I, I like it here. So and I stay one year became least nine years.

[00:19:34] Marina: And different markets, completely different market. So... 

[00:19:37] Zoe: Wow. I think in my organization I work with a lot of different languages. I don't speak multiple language. Very jealous of everybody that does. But, uh, one thing I noticed is a lot of times if somebody speaks English as their second language, they tend to apologize for not being perfect English, whilst speaking perfect English.

[00:19:56] Zoe: Mind you better than me most of the time. But, uh, one thing that I've always ask my colleagues who speak multiple languages, is it really difficult to transition from, I'm assuming I may, I'm making an assumption here in Brazil, I suspect you weren't speaking English every day. As you are, uh, daily working and then moving to America, you probably had to speak English in a lot of situations.

[00:20:19] Zoe: Was that a hard transition? 

[00:20:20] Marina: So, a little bit, right. So before I came to US, I, I, I knew a little bit of English, so I had enough English knowledge at the time and before even I moved to US and, uh, on my first job that I had, I had to speak English right on a daily basis. Because it was a global operations team and we're just doing things in English.

[00:20:39] Marina: Right. That help a lot. But at home, no, it's just Portuguese. Right. And then on my second job, it was a very, uh, it was eventually I was speaking English for certain things. Right. It was, but not as often. Right. When I came to US, then yes. Then things changed completely. Right. But you get better at that, right?

[00:20:55] Marina: You the more you, I mean, living here is completely different, right? You interact with people that you have to speak no matter what. Right? By no means I'm like a proficient right? In English. Uh, but I can communicate way better than I was communicating like five years ago, or nine years ago, right? So it's getting better.

[00:21:12] Marina: One thing that I struggle sometimes, which is interesting, if I need to count, I have to think in Portuguese. I still cannot think in English. Like if I, if I need to do so many mathematics, I have to go Portuguese in my mind. Everything else, it's, it's okay, right? But the mathematics, I still have to do it in Portuguese first..

[00:21:29] Marina: And sometimes I move a customer and sometimes it's about like number of transcivers and I just, Can you code it in? Just code it in. And then I, in my mind, I do my math and then everything's fine. So I still struggle a little bit. Sometimes I forget things, sometimes I don't know how to say certain things. And I have to ask why I, I just pause, you know?

[00:21:47] Marina: So yeah, that happens, I think, But over time you, I guess you, you get more, you know, proficient, right? Well, I don't think nine years ago, I don't think I would have be having this conversation this way, . So I guess I got better over time. 

[00:21:59] Zoe: It is very impressive though. Like, as I said, I struggle with English half the time, so I'm so impressed with people that can handle multiple languages.

[00:22:07] Marina: Yeah. And you know what happened now? So I, I mix, so with my, with people that, my friends now I, when I have to text or something, I mix English and Portuguese because sometimes for me it's easy to type in English, right. And then I just mix. It's a very interesting thing. Right? And so I, I do the, I do both.

[00:22:23] Marina: So for people that understand Portugese, of course, 

[00:22:26] Zoe: As a immigrant myself, I am not, I, I live in the Netherlands at the moment, but I'm not actually Dutch. I don't sound Dutch as well, but , so it's not a guess. But one thing that I struggle with when I moved was, um, culturally it's very different than what I grew up with, but also it's hard to feel like I fit in sometimes.

[00:22:47] Zoe: And I, I feel like some of my imposter syndrome is stemming from not necessarily feeling like I'm a part of things. Uh, in some situations, especially when I moved, I moved quite a few times. Do you ever feel. That being an immigrant can cause a little bit of anxiety in professional experience or maybe add a bit of stress to the, I guess settling in.

[00:23:10] Marina: Yeah, just a, This is really a great point and I, and I think I felt that way, but on my early days when I moved to US, not, Not right now. Right now, I don't think that like that anymore. Right. I think it, it, I guess I'm more, I feel more confident right now, but in my first years, absolutely. Because it takes times, right?

[00:23:27] Marina: It really takes time for you to, to find your own, your own way through things, right? I remember learning new expressions that I never heard before. I'm not gonna tell you one, I mean, don't laugh, but I remember I was in this meeting and it was a sales meeting and, and this guy was saying, Hey, yeah, because we need to, to take care of like the low hanging fruit.

[00:23:46] Marina: Like what is, what is low hanging fruit? To me, I have never heard it. You know, I was like, I dunno what it is. But anyway, maybe in Portuguese, I, I knew more or less what it was. And there's so many other expression that even today, sometimes I like, and sometimes now I'm using myself, but at the beginning for me was like foreign language, right?

[00:24:03] Marina: So those types of things, right? The behavior sometimes the way. The conversations that you have with your manager, for example, is different, a little bit different. Like it's different culture, right? So you, it's a, it has to be different, right? But you learn a lot from it though. It's um, you know, over time you just, I don't know if you get used to it or you just just feel comfortable.

[00:24:21] Marina: Right. You get to a point where you just feel comfortable and more confident, but it takes time back to your question. Absolutely. At the beginning, at the early years or something like that. Yes. 

[00:24:31] Chris: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And specifically, uh, idioms. I know that that was a big focus. I, I worked for several years for the Internet Society, which like a global non-governmental organization.

[00:24:42] Chris: And I kind of traveled around the world speaking at conferences and worked within the IETF, which is a global organization. And that was a really big thing for me personally, but for that, those organizations as well, which is kind of getting beyond the idioms and, and kind of moving past these cliches and things that we tend to use.

[00:24:58] Chris: You know, in, in American speech or in Western English speech in general, like tightening our belts and, and getting the low hanging fruit. And I, you know, I can't remember anymore right now, but there's a ton of them that don't actually make any sense. If you take them literally, and especially if you take them literally and then translate them into someone's native language, they're nonsense, right?

[00:25:16] Chris: And so, uh, that's actually a big challenge I think in global communication. 

[00:25:20] Zoe: London has many, many an odd slang, , many odd slang. I'm not gonna say them cause gosh. But, um, when I started, I also told people I, My story is hilarious in a room of all of my bosses, essentially, and my coworkers. I was wearing a skirt and I had some switches or I think it was a switch to rack.

[00:25:42] Zoe: Yeah. And I was looking at it and I'm like, I should have wore some pants in the UK pants is... Underwear. So I basically told the boss, boss, boss, boss, like senior, everybody that I was going commando . So now I refer to it as trousers, Cause I, Yeah. 

[00:26:03] Chris: On that note, we are running out time for today and it's, it's, uh, actual clock time.

[00:26:10] Chris: Not, uh, not because of these comments, I promise. Marina, Zoe and I and the entire imposter syndrome network wanna thank you for joining us today and sharing your story with all of us. Thank you. Uh, and thank you to everyone out there listening. Thanks for your time. Thanks for your attention and, uh, your support as well.

[00:26:27] Chris: If you haven't already, please feel free to join us on LinkedIn. We have a group for conversations between the episodes, but really more than that for this community, for this imposter syndrome network to get together to give and get advice, uh, from each other about our careers and our work. 

[00:26:42] Chris: Now, Marina, before we close out this episode, uh, I do have one more question for you now, whether or not you call it imposter syndrome.

[00:26:50] Chris: I think that, you know, what I've seen as with all of our guests, right, is a little bit of hesitancy to pat yourself on the shoulder or be as comfortable with your success as you have been. So, you know when you're feeling that way, right? When you're feeling like, Oh, you know, I'm not quite ready for this, this DevNet presentation, or, Oh, I haven't really done a podcast like this in a long time and I, I don't feel quite comfortable with it.

[00:27:10] Chris: What do you do to deal with those feelings? 

[00:27:13] Marina: So lately it's, if it's being quite a few of those type of challenges, you what I'm doing, I take a deep breath. Like I, I will do it no matter what. I will do it. There is a time where I wouldn't do it, but now I'm, I'm just challenging myself. I'm just pushing myself a little bit more.

[00:27:28] Marina: So, and I think we should do that. We should, all do that anyway. Right. So, yeah, pushing myself. 

[00:27:33] Chris: Awesome. I love it. Thank you. Are there any projects you're working on or involved in that the network should be aware of? Or either that, Either yes or no. Is there, uh, you know, ways folks can connect with you if they hear this episode and they wanna reach out and, um, say, say, say hi after some advice or something.

[00:27:48] Marina: Oh sure. You could connect with me, uh, through LinkedIn and, um, the things I'm working right now, that's gonna be out in a few weeks, I hope. I have a blog series that I'm putting together for a specific product that I'm work with. So that's gonna be out, which is something that I haven't done a lot lately.

[00:28:03] Marina: Right. So we just writing blogs. So I'm gonna back to that for this particular product. So it should be out this year, should be out in a few weeks and I hope that people would enjoy that too, so. 

[00:28:13] Chris: Awesome. Yeah, for sure. We'll make sure to get the link from you. I'm, I'm sure it'll publish before we publish this episode, so we'll get the link, we'll put it in the show notes.

[00:28:19] Chris: It'll be there. Awesome. Thanks for being here. This was fantastic. Uh, one of my most fun conversations. We'll see everyone again next week.